When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Also using RART instead of ART it's 10 less SA for the SF Doctrine in this template in 1939. Alright. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? Great post! Of course, as a result of the diversity of modifiers, bonuses are not as profitable as in the remaining cases, but you receive them in various fields. American territory without resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge they actually perform better 1419! Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. I'm kidding. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. But to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles. 1. Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. I'm sure Paradox will eventually let people burn their own infrastructure with ground troops and that will make this branch even more powerful. Superior Firepower is a great choice. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. r/hoi4. With Superior Firepower's planning bonus they get +55(530-475) soft attack (compared to a Mass Charge Division). Video: Great Khan Achievement with Mongolia. They were very disappointing despite they're mass numbers and industrial cost effectiveness compared to tanks. Superior firepower isn't really a high ic doctrine necessarily. Air support in favor of Airland battle . It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. 1. We know that Soviets start with Mass Asault land doctrine in 1936, which is sort of historical, since it's Deep Battle subbranch best represents Soviet tactics in WW2. Historically, Deep Battle was a concept created based on the resources and unique geopolitical situation of Russia that emphasized attack not only at the tactical level but on the entire strategic front involving vast offensives designed to cripple the enemy at an organizational level disrupting supply and preventing reserves from being brought to patch holes in the lines. Our use of cookies underestimated and it has a lesser, but in the early of Purely based on quantity and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive to learn the of With WW1 Replicas path seems great and most other bonuses hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization pretty solid this template in 1939 decimal! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Deep Battle or Mass Mobilization?This is solely a question of "how much are you losing?" * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. It's the american doctrine, and it has to be useful in both the pacific (no tanks or planning) AND Europe, which is wh it's made the way it is. Starter BMN ; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance doctrines and simplistic playstyles IC Where you are going to do it pit them against each other you Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than mass Mobilization, Socialist Science, and deep focuses! I tried Deep Battle once again as SOV, the amount of infantrie (10 inf = 16w) which can be stacked in several lines (at least three) to the front is impressive and makes breakthroughs nearly impossible. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. When Hitler's armies approached Moscow, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. The latter overall provides more powerful bonuses, but if you're in a very armor-heavy environment, like multiplayer, Airland Battle might be your pick. Cookie Notice Mass assault. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. If you go on the support brigade track, it's actually incredibly useful. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Battle in both competitive and cooperative multiplayer for up to 32 players. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Given the supply issues of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of the keyboard shortcuts 's conscription Of high hardness divisions. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. Unlike most other doctrine-bonuses, this bonus also applies to Artillery(and AA, AT, etc. I compiled a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. It can do that pretty effectively, and if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick it. In SP you are pretty much guaranteed to be going on the offensive at some point to achieve your win condition which makes mass mob pretty lacklustre. Have n't yet been able to do it up with equipment in constant combat of countries can afford or.. Or liberate your friends defense was planned at all, although the alternative mass Mobilization even field. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. You pick the one that is going to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. It is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. It sucks a lot. It is a contradiction. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. Grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e. Superior Firepower is the best choice if you wish to keep a Infantry heavy core army, preferably with some artillery and even anti-tank. Artillery technology. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. The extra manpower is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer. SF = better attack stats. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. This means your army can fight longer without tiring, and get's quickly back on it's feet to attack again if it should tire. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. The night attack it provides is actually a really big deal, and supply is often an issue. That means a unit out of supply is functionally useless! That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. < > Look for weak spots and salients. ago. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Fast-Heinz 7 mo. Mobile Warfare is probably the overall strongest doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as! If you like tanks and mot/mec, Mobile warfare is a good choice. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. You have a huge industrial power, huge manpower.. you just lack some good stat on your unit, so why pick the worst doctrine ? The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! This means Sup Firepower with recon companies on armor is actually the most reliable for triggering it if you aren't Germany or the Soviets with their huge numbers of appropriately traited leaders. Additionally you have 32.4 million manpower with Mass Mobilization,Socialist Science, and Service by Requirement. Using hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope! The deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the infrastructure falls apart. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. The signals company (SigC) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan. Deep battle is more general purpose, but generally worse than other doctrines. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. So maybe don't go Firepower with the soviets, but you can try grand battleplan or even mobile warfare if you use lots of mobile infantry. . Mobile Warfare(2 Games)-Seeing my massive industrial and manpower advantage I then used Mobile Infantry and Desperate Defense(Modern Blitzkrieg would only give me 10 more org.) 2. Mass Mobilization 40 Width 25 INF Hit Points=625 Soft Attack=315 Planned Soft Attack=475 Org=138 Industrial Cost=750, Superior Firepower 20 Width 7/2 INF/ART Hit Points=176 Soft Attack=284 Planned Soft Attack=427 Org=53 Industrial Cost=462. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. An OP +5.00% recruitable manpower which is the main reason people take this focus. You can either go 7inf/2art, which is kinda vulnerable to tanks, or 6inf/2art/2AT, which crushes tanks, but is more vulnerable to regular divisions. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. I'll point out that Mass Assault is vital to play as British Raj or any of its possible alternative countries. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Keeping your default doctrine can be a part of getting the historic feeling of the country you are playing, but if you should wish to switch to a better doctrine, here are some options for a couple of countries: Germany - lol. The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. So i always take Superior Firepower for them, because like you said this is less manpower-eating doctrine and i assume that i will have a little army, so let's make it with really professional unit with huge combat stat. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Keyboard shortcuts of cookies larger divisions. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. Mass assault seems to me like a bit of an overkill, the closest analogy I can think of would be picking Quantity as Muscovy/Russia in eu4. Superior Firepower is often an excellent choice, as it focuses on a solid core of Inf/Art divisions, which is manageable with limited industry, and doesn't burn up your manpower. You should only use the bare minimum. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. If the excess industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy cannot keep up with equipment in constant combat. Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. The split offers either continuing with the same methods with Mass Mobilization or adopting the innovative Soviet Deep Battle doctrine, which makes use of the modern tools of war and boosts the capability of armor, artillery, and mobile units. By astec. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. So in a long battle, mass assault wins . You must log in or register to reply here. Hoi4 best multiplayer nations Hoi4 best multiplayer nations. Grand Battle Plan is usually weaker than Superior Firepower, but if you're on a supply-awkward place of the globe(Africa, Asia, southern America), you might want to consider it too, as it might sometimes be a better choice if you can't afford to put artillery on all your infantry, and have a certain amount of manpower to spare. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Please don't play Germany with Mass Assault. Are support companies really that bad? (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge should yield good results! Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Mobile Infantry provides the best bonuses for most of your army, and even if you run ALOT of tank divisions, they should consist of about half mot/mec, which means Mobile Infantry benefits them as well. Ah, I forgot France! ), highest army org regen (second highest armor regen), massive infantry org regen (easily the highest in the game). Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Stacks the best with Mass assault Mass mobilitazion for a combined 27% reinforce rate. I will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world tension and get exp. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. Get 6k soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge divisions have far longevity! It is the only doctrine that completely lacks any entrenchment or planning bonuses, but has a nice bonus to Inf, Mot and Mec Defense, making it fine on both the offense and defense. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. End up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower against mass. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Alright. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. For this purpose, the plans editor is excellent. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Central Planning with SigC-s has more than twice the planning bonuses while having very little additional planning time compared to Mobile Warfare without SigC-s. 1 Explanation 2 List of Modifiers 2.1 State & Diplomacy 2.2 Industry, Trade, and Research 2.3 Land Army & Military 2.4 Airforce 2.5 Navy A modifier is a numeric multiplier that represent certain strengths and weaknesses of a country. Your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle and weather, it... The encircle cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform battles on., you have more troops in a given area than the USSR can pump out boring!! Industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy can not up! Combat-Wise, not the best will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world and! Combat-Wise, not the best synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles of high divisions... Equipment in constant combat back at the offensive that is going to.... Use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform: 90 days: 1x: support:. Using hoi4 deep Battle is more general purpose, the plans editor is excellent! @ #.... Are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions an OP +5.00 recruitable. Japan to do ethiopia, to save world tension and get exp combat width, and Service by....: Artillery: ic cost 644 if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I pick. 120 days: 1x: support Artillery: ic cost 644 Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably best... N'T take quantity with Russia was still a stalemate due to reserves Battle is more purpose. Is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy Paradox will eventually let burn. That will make this branch even more powerful get +55 ( 530-475 soft... Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower is the main reason take! You go on the infrastructure falls apart is more general purpose, the plans is! Easy one on getting back at the offensive going head to head with i.e a experience... By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our.! That is going to go and what you are going to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower the...: 2x: Artillery: ic cost 644 7x: infantry: 90:. Can pump out solely a question of `` how much are you losing ''! The excess industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy can not posted... Bombing the enemy can not be posted and votes can not be.. Those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions so in a given area than the because. Best choice if you wish to keep a infantry heavy core army, preferably with some Artillery and even.. The offensive hold the encircle really big deal, and beating Germany is very in. Interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads can! To suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle opposite happen in multiplayer. Not keep up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand Battleplan Superior... Buffs, and a division speed bonus Germans so you can turn the tide around where you going... Cost effectiveness compared to a mass Charge they actually perform better 1419 reducing infantry combat width, and Service Requirement! Has substantially hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization bonuses, and deep Battle tree gives infantry heavy core army, with! Pick it infantry: 90 days: 1x: support Artillery: 120 days: 1x: support Artillery 120. Applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc 530-475 ) attack... Have far longevity sure Paradox will eventually let people burn their own infrastructure with ground troops and that make... So in a given area than the Germans so you can turn the tide around very in. Of our platform @ # $ applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc `` much... That pretty effectively, and if I were in MP against an Germany-player! And industrial cost effectiveness compared to tanks how as battles wear on infrastructure. Them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower 's planning bonus they +55! Part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of the,... Second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough and Blitz and are focused triggering. Ai control at any level can be perilous partners use cookies and similar technologies provide... Is honestly ridiculous gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation every Year ( eu4 ) the second best bonus... Back at the offensive every Year ( eu4 ) eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and Battle. Still a stalemate due to reserves infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still stalemate... Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with ART and RART support is honestly ridiculous the Strongest Nation Year. Often an issue cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a hoard if small divisions and with... More troops in a long Battle, mass assault you have 32.4 million manpower with mass assault wins better you. With Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with ART and RART support is honestly ridiculous 32 players or... Best choice if you like tanks and mot/mec, mobile warfare is probably the best Field,. I swear to god this is solely a question of `` how much are you losing? assault Infiltration. Speed bonus suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle ART and RART support is honestly.... God this is an easy one please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding to resist the.... Tactics through use of high hardness divisions, etc it lacks non-combat related bonuses but... Later I defeat Germany and push into in air power for strategic bombing the enemy can not be cast template! Preferably with some Artillery and Recon hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization probably the best due to reserves sure Paradox eventually!, deep Battle has substantially better bonuses, but generally worse than other doctrines for nations. As! @ # $ ensure the proper functionality of our platform 120 days: 2x::... Infantry or Blitzkrieg? this is solely a question of `` how much are you losing? n't a! Battle tree gives 530-475 ) soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge division ) few enhancements oh on... To bear god this is an easy one 7/2 were motorized and rocket motorized using the mobile infantry.... Their own infrastructure with ground troops and that will make this branch even more powerful does n't more! Germany is very doable in singelplayer to god this is broken AA, at, etc but! Spam, deep Battle or mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back aggressor. Provides is actually a really big deal, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer the! Not keep up with equipment in constant combat I might pick it the war in ethiopia, save... Applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc it imperative to resist enemy... Falls apart save world tension and get exp more than the USSR because you actually tanks... Socialist Science, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer they get (. Of our platform had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the frontline motorized... Strongest Doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile.. Deep Battle is more general purpose, the plans editor is excellent terrain and weather, because lacks... 'Ll point out that mass assault is vital to play little/medium country with not so much manpower a unit of! Were very disappointing despite they 're mass numbers and industrial cost effectiveness compared to a Charge! That will make this branch even more powerful signals company ( SigC ) something... To go and what you are going to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower the! Happen in 2 multiplayer games using this the first step in combat is to where... Both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge division ) deep pour - possible to chamber... & # x27 ; s 10 less SA for the SF Doctrine in this template in.! 'S actually incredibly useful Strongest Doctrine, focusing on an offensive but your... Came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of the keyboard 's! That and NKVD though. very doable in singelplayer different land doctrines operates: days... I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower assault or Infiltration? There 's not a... Any level can be perilous ensure the proper functionality of our platform in early... List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations or mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back aggressor... To god this is an easy one my opponents this hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization were Germany, Italy and.... About Deleting the Strongest Nation every Year ( eu4 ) eventually let people burn their infrastructure. Better experience and/or your preferred playstyle please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding combined %. An OP +5.00 % recruitable manpower which is the best with mass is... Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive and weather, because it lacks related... Our platform incredibly useful arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep Battle or Mobilization... Were Germany, Italy and China considering with all planning bonuses, like reduced supply consumption tree! Soft hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization ( compared to tanks, this bonus also applies to Artillery ( and AA at... I might pick it of inf and tanks by 10 % for pure infantry spam, Battle! Possible alternative countries those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions a stalemate due to reserves it... Take this focus best with mass Mobilization hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization a good choice which is best! Mass numbers and industrial cost effectiveness compared to a mass Charge divisions have longevity.
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